Episode #4: High Sensitivity in Learning and Work Environments
How one researcher’s personal HSP journey is changing the way we understand sensitivity in schools and other learning and work environments.
Welcome back to The Happy HSP Podcast. I’m your host Kimberly Marshall, and today I’m joined by educator and researcher Dr. Kaaryn Cater for an insightful conversation about living and learning as an HSP.
Dr. Kaaryn shares her personal journey of discovering she’s a highly sensitive person and how that realization shaped both her life and her career. We talk about the challenges and gifts of sensitivity, what the latest research is revealing about how HSPs learn, and why creating supportive environments in schools and workplaces matters more than ever.
Whether you’re navigating your own learning path or an advocating for HSPs in your community and work, this episode is packed with tons of validation and encouragement. I hope you enjoy it!
Kim: Hi, Dr. Kaaryn. Welcome to the Happy HSP podcast. As usual, I would love to just start digging into a little bit about your journey and how you found out you were a highly sensitive person and really what that journey has looked like for you.
Dr. Kaaryn: Firstly, thanks, Kim. Thanks for inviting me along. It’s my absolute pleasure to be here. I first found out, first realized that I was highly sensitive when I heard a podcast with Elaine Aron. So, I’m in New Zealand, and one of our foremost interviewers was doing a podcast with Elaine Aron, and I’m sure this will resonate with a lot of people. She started talking about the traits of high sensitivity and my jaw hit the ground, but this just describes me to a T, but I thought, well, hold on. It actually describes my mother and my youngest son.
So, my mother had died by that point. But I rang my dad, I was so excited, and I said, dad, have a listen to this podcast that’s playing at the moment, and we’ll talk about it afterwards. So, we listened to the podcast, and then I rang my dad, and I said, so what do you think? Doesn’t that sound like me and mom and my son? And my dad said, it sounds like a load of old codswallop. So, on that very, very, very first day, I realized that if you were highly sensitive, of course it all made sense. All the pieces fell into place, but if you weren’t, you wouldn’t really have an understanding of it at all. And of course, given that the majority of the population is not highly sensitive, it can be a bit of a mission for people to understand.
And so, from there, I started to look back on aspects of my life. Like say for instance, from a very early age, when I was about 13, I used to spend my pocket money on buying fuschias, the scented flowers in the spring, because I loved them so much. And I put a vase of fuschias by my bed so I could smell it. That was a strange thing for a 13-year-old girl to do buy scented flowers.
But there were lots of other strange things as well. And I guess I always had a sense of being quite different. I didn’t like lots of people. I got really overwhelmed by crowds and noise and light. I didn’t like birthday parties and things like that. And interestingly, neither did my son and I hadn’t put things together, but he got overwhelmed when he had birthday parties and often ended up crying when people sang “Happy Birthday” and things. So, I wish I’d known about it when I was raising my son.
Kim: So, after you heard this podcast, what were your thoughts? What did you do with that information?
Dr. Kaaryn: Well, I bought Elaine’s book of course, and read it, and it all made sense and sort of parked everything for a while. And a couple of years later maybe I was working with some students. So, I am an educator in, what would you call it? I would call it tertiary education, post-secondary education, university. And I got curious about these students that I had who often were top-of-the-class students, but they didn’t feel comfortable handing their assignments in until I’d looked it over. And although they were getting top marks, they didn’t feel confident that they would continue getting top marks. And I thought, what’s going on here? This is unusual.
So, I went to education literature and there was nothing I could find. And then one day I thought, well, look, I’m just going to revisit Elaine’s work. And I started reading academic papers. And back then there was about, I don’t know, one or two new papers coming out a year. And now there are so many papers coming out.
Kim: Because it feels like there’s so much information out there. When was that when there wasn't much? Can you give us a timeframe?
Dr. Kaaryn: Yeah. I started researching in this field 10 years ago.
Kim: Wow. So, we’ve had a real increase in just information coming out about HSP.
Dr. Kaaryn: Exponential. Exponential. So, I realized that this is what I was looking at, and I just started researching in the field. My first research project was just to see if highly sensitive students found it helpful to know about high sensitivity for organizing their life and their study. And 100% of the participants in the study said, not only was it helpful, but it was life changing. So, I thought, well, why are we not talking about this in education? It’s vital. So long story short, I did a PhD.
And I was just looking to see about the impact of high sensitivity on learning. So, because I work with post-secondary learners, I did it with post-secondary learners. But since then, I’ve written a book and that looks at learners from preschool all the way through to adult and all the stages and ages in between.
Kim: I would love to learn more about your research. What did you find?
Dr. Kaaryn: So, many of us who are highly sensitive will have a sense of being quite different and not knowing why a sense of other being on the outside. I mean, I’ll share a little story with you. I had a student who was studying paramedicine, and she was in her mid-thirties. And once you know about high sensitivity, you have a bit of an antenna for it.
She was talking away and talking away, and I just asked her a few questions. I said, do you find that you think deeply about things? Yes. Do you have a busy mind? Yes. Do you find that it takes you longer to learn things than others? Yes. And then so on and so forth, big emotional reactions. Do you notice subtleties in the environment? Are you aware of other people and their feelings, high levels of empathy, all this kind of thing? And she said, yes, all of those things. And so, I told her about high sensitivity and the tears just poured down her cheeks. And she said, I didn’t think that there was anyone else like me, and I didn’t think anybody would care.
Kim: Care, understand. Yeah.
Dr. Kaaryn: So, there’s a lot of that kind of feeling. So, this came up in my initial research was this feeling of being different, but not knowing why. And often to taking longer to learn things. Of course, if we’re processing information at a much deeper level rather than surface, it can seem that we’re taking longer to learn things. And so, from there, you might ask questions of yourself, why do I take longer to learn things? And you might have some kind of a bit of a conversation going on in your head, and it might be about that there’s something wrong with you as a learner…
So, there was a lot of that sort of thing. And the messages that we can tell ourselves can also be told to us by other people that might be told to us by parents, siblings, teachers, peers, friends. And often, so in my experience, often people arrive at post-secondary education with all kinds of unuseful messages about who they are as learners.
There’s all of that sort of stuff. But then the other thing that I’m really interested in is overwhelm in different environments. It’s really hard to think and to process information if you are becoming physically or emotionally overwhelmed. Just recently, the nurses in New Zealand took their state finals, and one of the students who had passed everything with As failed her state final exam. And she had no idea why. Well, it turns out that when they went into the room to sit the exam, they were all handed a plastic water bottle. And it’s one of these soft water bottles that’s crunchy. Do you know the ones, I mean.
Kim: Yeah.
Dr. Kaaryn: It makes a noise. So, you’ve got 150 people with crunchy water bottles. So, what happens is with intermittent sound, it just reaches in and takes over and grabs your brain. So, if you’ve got over a hundred people crunching water bottles, it’s no wonder she couldn’t think.
And on top of that, she ended up with an invigilator standing behind her, looking over her shoulder. But she had no idea that these were the things that were sort of usurping her concentration. But when she told me these things, she said, it’s going to sound really stupid, and this is what a lot of highly sensitive people say, isn’t it? It’s going to sound really stupid, but they were crunching water bottles. I’m like, yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. It’s going to sound really stupid. But there was this person standing behind me watching. But that doesn’t sound silly. I know exactly what you mean.
And I guess the really important thing is to know about high sensitivity, and then just to use that knowledge to be kind and to be mindful. So, when it comes to work, I think it’s really important that we have real meaning in our work. We’ll be interested and we’ll be engaged if it’s something that’s meaningful. And certainly, in my research, if we’re not interested in something, we won’t be engaged in it.
Kim: A hundred percent. I can tell you from experience that has been my career trajectory to a T, if I’m not a hundred percent interested, I just cannot, I can’t force myself to think thing because it’s just not engaging for me.
Dr. Kaaryn: That’s right. And I think too, we also need a lot more autonomy than a lot of people. We’re not good at being micromanaged because we have to be able to see the big picture, but also fit all the little pieces in. So, it is a complex thing, isn’t it? We need to see the big picture, but we also need to know the details. And when we’re in control of fitting all the details in, then there’s a lot more purpose other, aside from say, external motivation. So, we need to be internally motivated.
But I think, too, it gets even more complicated for sensation-seeking highly sensitive people. So, there was a study recently conducted by Bianca Acevedo and Tracy Cooper that found that half of highly sensitive people are also sensation seekers.
Kim: Can you explain what that is? A little bit? Sometimes I wonder if I fall into that camp, but I’m not exactly sure what that means.
Dr. Kaaryn: Absolutely. Well, in a nutshell, being a sensation-seeking highly sensitive person, it’s like living your life with one foot on the accelerator and one foot on the brake. So, a classic sensation-seeking person is likely to take risks and be impulsive. But for highly sensitive sensation seekers, you won’t so much see risks or impulsivity, but you’ll see liking new and novel situations. Alright, so this is new and novel projects, maybe new and novel jobs, the excitement of something new, but it’s not dangerous. Half of us are sensation seeking.
Kim: Oh, 50/50.
Dr. Kaaryn: Yeah. And also too, with sensation seeking, although we tend not to be impulsive, if we get overwhelmed in situations, we can be. We can make impulsive decisions just to eliminate overwhelm or to remove ourselves from situations that are overwhelming.
Kim: I can’t think about this anymore. I’m just going to make a decision and not even think about the consequences.
Dr. Kaaryn: Yes. Yeah. So, it’s really complex.
Kim: What was your response to finding out that you were highly sensitive? How did you use that information to, did it change how you saw yourself and how you saw the world? How did that come about for you?
Dr. Kaaryn: It changed a lot of things, actually, Kim. Up to that point, I guess I’d been a super people pleaser, always wanted to do the right thing, always wanted to be helpful, and that comes with getting overwhelmed and burnt out. And so, I stopped doing that. I learned to say no, to have boundaries and to stick to them.
Kim: What’s your favorite thing about high sensitivity? What do you love about being a highly sensitive person?
Dr. Kaaryn: Well, I love the joy that I get out of simple things. I’m really, really connected with nature, as many highly sensitive people are. And there’s reasons for that. I just recently, I’ve got it here. I don’t know if it’s going to show up on this. Can you see that?
It’s a book by a professor of biodiversity at the University of Oxford in the UK. It’s just been published, and it talks about how important it is for humans to be connected with nature.
And I think a lot of highly sensitive people just know it intuitively, because this is often where we get our energy is from nature. And so, she delves into the science of why it’s absolutely vital for us to keep connected with nature. And she talks about how it impacts our brain, our cognition, even our blood now. So, for instance, I talked to you about the fuchsias, right? The flowers.
Kim: Yes.
Dr. Kaaryn: So, what happens when we smell things is that a vapor goes through our nose, but it actually enters our blood. And I don’t know about you, Kim, but I’m deeply impacted by artificial fragrances like colognes and perfumes and cleaning products.
Kim: That overwhelm. Even walking into Yankee Candle or something, I’m just like, Ugh. Yes.
Dr. Kaaryn: Yep, yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. I remember once that there was, you have those stores over there. What’s it called? Oh, rush or something? Thrush. It’s a fragrance store. Anyway, but we had one in our local mall, and they had a cafe right outside it…
Kim: Not Lush, the bath company?
Dr. Kaaryn: Lush, Lush. Imagine having a cafe outside that store. It’s too much. So, what happens, of course, is that with a lot of products like fragrances and colognes and that sort of thing, they have volatile organic compounds, poisons, carcinogens, these things that are entering into our bloodstream, and it can make people feel really, really unwell. And one of the things that I’m trying to push for is to have scent-free policies in schools and government buildings. And it’s becoming a thing around the world in places like Canada, because we realized how damaging these fragrances can be for us.
And it’s always contentious, isn’t it? Because if you love your perfume, you love your perfume, and it should be my right to wear my perfume, and I understand that. But what if your perfume makes someone sick? I mean, if lights are too bright, you can put dark glasses on, or you can wear a hat or something like that, but there is nothing you can do to stop, to stop these things. But you’ll know, even if you’ve got a face mask on, you can still smell things.
And so, this is what I’m saying, and this is what came out of my research, is that when we’re overwhelmed by things like the light or the temperature or noise or fragrances, it’s really, really hard to concentrate. So, this can be challenging for highly sensitive people.
Kim: So, you shared what you love about high sensitivity. You shared a little bit about what you struggle with. Is there anything else that you struggle with that HSPs might relate to?
Dr. Kaaryn: Well, the main thing for me is physical overwhelm or emotional overwhelm too. But yeah, just too much. So, it’s just really just learning how to manage all of that. I guess when I was younger with no understanding of it, I always thought that there was something wrong with me. Why does everyone else not seem to be at all bothered by this? But I just want to go and run away and hide somewhere.
So, I still struggle with that, but I manage it now. So, if I have to go to a social situation, I’ll go for a shorter period of time. I won’t feel that I have to be there at the beginning. And I’m quite happy to leave, and I’m quite happy just to leave rather than say goodbye to everybody, just sort of quietly slip out.
And I take time lots and lots of quiet time every day. I love running in the hills and the beaches and things like that. I do that every morning. So that’s how I start my day. It grounds me to the earth, and it gives me an opportunity to plan my day, think about the shape of the day, how I’m going to manage the day, and it just gives me the energy that I need for the day. If I don’t do that, it’s not good.
So that’s sort of how I manage it. During my workday, and I do work in an open plan office, I go out whenever I can and just sort of walk around outside, feel the grass, look at the sky, breathe on the air, look at the water, we are by the water, and just sort of try and take in some energy as best I can during the day. And I’ve also too negotiated to work one day a week from home, which is really lovely. So often what I’ll do is I’ll set myself up outside under a sun umbrella, and I put my computer outside and I’m happy.
Kim: So, before we wrap things up, what advice can you give to HSPs who may be struggling to find more purpose, meaning and joy in their lives?
Dr. Kaaryn: Well, I think it’s really important to know what’s important in your life, what your values are and what you need to do to manage your life. So, I guess for work, the big salary probably isn’t the thing that’s going to do it for us. We might need to accept that the way that we work, the way that we organize our work, the work that we do that’s meaningful to us, that’s more important than the big salary. So, it’s figuring out what’s important for our values, but also too for managing ourselves. The life-work balance, the comfort balance.
Kim: Yeah. What’s important to you? What do you want? Is it a huge paycheck or is it the happiness and the contentment? And be able the ability to create your own schedule and have that peace.
Dr. Kaaryn: But I think knowing ourselves, knowing what’s important to us, knowing what we need, and being okay to do things the way that we need to do them so that we can manage better. I think that’s really important.
Kim: Thank you so much for sharing that, and for people who are listening and want to kind of follow along on your journey, where can they find you?
Dr. Kaaryn: Well, I recently joined Instagram because I’ve got this book coming out and my son said I should do it. And I’ve never been very good at social media, so I am on Instagram, and people can always get me by email as well, and I can share that with you.
Kim: What about your book? When is that coming out and what is it called? So, people can look for that too?
Dr. Kaaryn: Okay, so hopefully it’s out next year. It’s called Understanding the Highly Sensitive Learner, and the first half of it’s all the science of sensitivity, and the second half is divided into a chapter each on preschool, primary school, adolescent, adult learners, and highly sensitive parents and teachers, because parents and teachers are highly sensitive too.
And each chapter starts with a story about a person about their life, a case study, and it carries through the chapter, and it looks at all the stages and developmental milestones at each point and what this means for highly sensitive people. And then the end of the chapters has tips for parents and teachers.
Kim: Dr. Kaaryn, this sounds amazing. So, thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you so much for the work that you’re doing, and I cannot wait to get my hands on a copy. It just sounds like you are contributing so much to this community. And just thank you.
Dr. Kaaryn: My absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me, Kim. And I’ll certainly let you know when the book’s out.
Kim: Sounds perfect
Thank you so much for listening in on this conversation with Dr. Kaaryn. I hope you’re able to appreciate your sensitivity in new ways after learning so much about the trait and how it shows up for us in our everyday lives, especially when it comes to learning and work environments.
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Also, if you’re an HSP who needs extra support in finding the right career path, that’s the work I do. Visit www.happyhspcoaching.com to download your free copy of the career clarity guidebook. It’s full of exercises that will help you narrow in on your calling and get started building a gentle and nurturing career full of lots of purpose, meaning, and joy.
Until next time. Take care.
About Dr. Kaaryn Cater:
Dr. Kaaryn Cater is a Learning Advisor at a tertiary learning institution in New Zealand. Her research interests include sensitivity, environmental impacts on learning, neurodiversity, inclusion, equity, empowering learners through intrinsic motivation, self-efficacy and metacognitive monitoring, and promoting education sector change through sensitivity education.
Follow along with Dr. Kaaryn’s journey:
Instagram: @dr.kaaryncater_sensitivity
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dr-kaaryn-cater-b373103b
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About Kimberly:
After 20 years in the publishing industry working for companies like Time Inc., Monster.com, and W. W. Norton, Kimberly Marshall left her corporate work to create a gentler and more nurturing career that better suited her as an HSP. After repeatedly struggling with burnout and low confidence in the workplace, she now helps HSPs create careers that bring them lots of purpose, meaning, and joy. With the Happy HSP Podcast, Kimberly hopes to shed more light on the reality of living with high sensitivity and inspire more HSPs to embrace their empathetic, generous, and loving natures.
Hosted/produced by Kimberly Marshall
Edited by Fonzie Try Media
Artwork by Tara Corola