Episode #22: Self-Worth, Empathy, and Inner Transformation for HSPs

How embracing your sensitivity can lead to deeper healing, emotional balance, and self-confidence.

Welcome back to The Happy HSP Podcast. I’m your host, Kimberly Marshall — and today’s conversation is one that goes straight to the heart of what it means to be a highly sensitive person.

I’m joined by Josh Speraneo, a psychology major, self-proclaimed personal development junkie, and an identity-shift coach who helps quiet, compassionate people show up with confidence and share their gifts with the world.

Josh shares his personal journey of rediscovering his self-worth as a highly sensitive man, understanding empathy as a true strength, and transforming from the inside out. Together, we explore how healing old narratives, setting boundaries, and embracing sensitivity can lead to genuine confidence and inner peace.

If you’ve ever felt like your sensitivity holds you back — or wondered how to feel more grounded and empowered in who you are — this episode is for you.

I hope you enjoy it!

Kim: Hey Josh. Welcome. It’s so good to see you. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Josh: Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited.

Kim: So, first things first, I want to hear about your journey. How did you find out about your high sensitivity? What was that like?

Josh: It’s an interesting one. So, I mean, I’ve always loved personal development, personal growth, self-awareness, anything that adds to my understanding of myself I love diving into. And so, when a friend introduced me to the Myers-Briggs personality type and I found out I was an INFJ and went down the list and was like, oh my gosh, these all so accurately describe me, this is amazing. I love that. And then what happened as far as discovering I was an HSP was I came across the book, The Empath Survival Guide at Books-A-Million. And it was one of those things where I saw it looked at the back of it, it looked interesting, but I passed it up several times. And then finally one day I sat down and just went through the little quiz in there, are you an empath in Dr. Judith Orloff’s book, and found out I was an empath and I was like, oh, that’s really cool. It was exciting. And along the way, reading through that book and in related resources, I kept coming across the term “highly sensitive person.” And so I went and I took the quiz for that online. And it was funny, I texted a friend about the empath quiz. I was super excited, and I texted her about the HSP one and I’m like, I’m not sure what to think about this.

But as I dove deeper into it, I tend to go down the rabbit hole all the way if I start. And so, I read The Highly Sensitive Person, I read Quiet by Susan Kain. I read Sensitive Is the New Strong by Anita Moorjani. I read The Highly Sensitive Man, The Strong Sensitive Boy, whatever resources I could find. And the more that I learned about the trait, the more excited I got.

And so that really just started me on this path of realizing that depending on the resource that you consult, anywhere from 20 to 25, maybe even 30% of the population has this genetic trait of sensory processing sensitivity. And yet the reality is if you talk to people, maybe 2% of those people, maybe five at being generous, actually know that they have the trait and know what it entails. And so, it just got me started on this desire to spread the word as much as possible to raise awareness around this topic and to help people come to know this part of themselves if they have the trait and learn how to embrace it and see the strengths in their sensitivity.

Kim: Absolutely. Gosh, there’s so much there. One of the things I was thinking about when you were saying that is at first you didn’t know how to feel about it and now you’re excited about it. And the value it sounds like, of knowing this about yourself. Can you kind of share that a little bit more?

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. So, I was thinking about this last night and when I first saw it, and I think for many men who find out that they’re highly sensitive, it reminds me of that scene in The Empire Strikes Back where Luke finds out that Darth Vader’s his father. And he’s like, “No, that’s not true. That’s impossible!” And I think a part of me had that reaction to seeing that on the quiz like, wait, how am I a highly sensitive person? What does that even mean?

And so, I think a lot of us start there on our journey. I think a lot of us we’re a little confused because of either the stigma that we’ve heard around the trait in things that we’ve read or because of a reaction to the word “sensitive.” And so, I think part of what we have to do is one, get a better understanding, especially if you read back through after you’ve taken the quiz and you read about the different aspects of the trait…here are a lot of positives built into that quiz, a lot of interesting ways to understand ourselves. And then the other part is looking at the word sensitive and thinking about the contrast.

Would I rather be a sensitive man, or would I rather be insensitive because nobody that I know of has a positive association with insensitivity. With that, you have words like unfeeling, uncaring, distant, harsh, and so nobody that I know of wants to be described that way. So, what is the other side of that? Compassionate, kind, gentle, respectful, comforting, supportive.

So, in my mind, when you really look at it, there’s only positives to be found in the trait and in identifying with it and in really owning our sensitivity. And so that’s been my experience since then is like, wait, there’s so much good to be found here and so many aspects of myself that I can embrace and that actually help me to really show up more fully in my life and in the people that I want to support and the lives of the people I want to support.

Kim: I love that so much. It reminds me a while ago I read some thing along the similar lines. It’s like, yeah, you might not love that you are sensitive, but what is the opposite of that? Like you said, insensitive. It’s like with society, if we’re not being inclusive, what do you want? Exclusivity people that are not good, so there’s not so black and white, but you know what I’m saying, there’s polls to that.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. There’s a whole spectrum there. And I think what a lot of people would find that maybe don’t test into the highly sensitive end of the spectrum, they still are very sensitive. They’re still very compassionate, very empathetic. They still are picking up a lot of what’s going on in the environment around them. They just aren’t quite over that threshold into high sensitivity.

But most people obviously are going to fall somewhere in the middle. So, they have an element of sensitivity to them. And again, even in them it can be a strength. I think what happens so often is because of stereotypes, especially stereotypical masculinity, that a lot of the positive traits are suppressed over time. That whole idea of boys don’t cry, toughen up, and just all the different nicknames that can come if you don’t fall into those categories.

And so, I think a part of us has been maybe steered away from that both in men and in women, but that also we can reclaim that. We can reclaim the word sensitivity, and we can also reclaim those elements of ourselves that maybe we’ve suppressed over time because I don’t know of a more needed trait or attribute than empathy in the world that we live in today.

I mean the world is living with an empathy deficit, especially for those who are in office in positions of authority. There are very few people I think that we would describe as empathetic making decisions about our lives and within the government. And so the more that we can embrace empathy, the more that we elevate that attribute as the valuable attribute that it is, I think the more that we can reshape the culture around us, and hopefully the more empathetic leaders will elevate to positions where they can start making decisions and hopefully turn the tide on some of the directions that the government and just society in general seems to be going.

Kim: How do you see empathy changing things for us? If we were to lean into more empathy, what would that look like?

Josh: I think in my mind, it’s one of those things where empathy helps us to both see and feel things from another person’s perspective. And so, if we come at it with that understanding, it’s a matter of it’s harder to make…it’s harder to write people off if you are choosing empathy harder to create us-versus-them dichotomies. If you’re choosing empathy, it’s harder to judge someone that you drive by going down the street if you’re looking at them through a lens of empathy and compassion.

And so, I think that’s how it changed. If you look at the world through that lens of empathy, everyone has value. Everyone has something to contribute, everyone’s life has meaning, everyone has potential. So that reframe that perspective to me so powerful because then it eliminates all those fake dichotomies that we set up. It eliminates all of the boundaries that I try and put up between myself and someone else and not speaking in terms of healthy boundaries, but walls that we would potentially put up because they’re different than me.

And instead, it’s how are we similar and what is their story? I mean, I think that’s such a powerful question to ask when I go to judge someone, or social media maybe influences me to look at someone and judge their story. It’s like, but what is their story? Like, okay, they did this thing, and I get that, but what’s the story behind that? Where are they coming from? What have they been through? And I think empathy opens up all those questions within us and gets us to look at people with that lens instead of whatever our first reaction might be.

Kim: Absolutely. Gosh, it’s so funny when you were explaining that, I just kept thinking, cancel culture, cancel culture. I get that. But it always feels like such a mob mentality. And even though people do awful things, I’m in your camp. It’s like humans, we’re all here to learn and grow and be better. And yeah, we’re all human.

Josh: Yeah, for sure.

Kim: So, you have a psychology background.

Josh: Yeah. I majored in psychology, just had a strong desire to help people but wasn’t sure what that would look like. So that seemed like, oh, and there’s a cat.

Kim: Oh my cat is going to be coming here in a second.

Josh: An ideal way to pursue education. And I think that that’s eventually what led me back to life coaching. I took several different kind of branches on the path, but always had that strong desire. And the more I thought about it, the more and learned about coaching, the more that seemed like a good avenue to pour my compassion into. And also just the strong desire I have to help people reach their potential.

But I’ve, like I said, I just always have been a personal development junkie and love that idea of growing in self-understanding, but also growing in my understanding of other people. And I can’t look at people without seeing that they have potential and they have gifts. And so that part of me has always wanted to cheerlead them and figure out, okay, how can I come alongside them and help them utilize those gifts if they have big goals and big dreams that they’ve kind of put on hold for a season of life, how do I help them to go back after that dream and that goal? And is there a way that I can support them in that process of becoming the person that they aspire to be?

Kim: Yeah. I have a question for you, and I hope it’s not too personal, but in your personal journey, I find that a lot of people like you and me who choose coaching aspect, it doesn’t come from everything being perfect, we struggle. Did you grow up so confident or was there a point where the reason that you do coaching and you try and see people for who they are and bring out their best, was that a personal struggle for you?

Josh: So, I think that desire has always been there, but I would say that it’s informed by what I would describe as maybe a traumatic childhood. And that’s not to say that my parents didn’t love me. It’s not to say that they didn’t do the best they could given their backgrounds and their stories. And my mom was an amazing woman. My dad had a lot of mental health struggles.

And what I found was that along the way I learned to hold my feelings in and isolate until I thought I could put on a good face and come back out and face the world again. And that became a pattern for me for a long time, that kind of self-censoring and a lot of self-consciousness, how do I appear to people? And I think a lot of us fall into that trap as highly sensitive people. We’re really good at reading people, so we’re good at people pleasing and looking like we have it all together. And I think for me, part of what I want people to understand is that, one, you don’t have to have it all together, none of us do. And two, we can create these self-imposed prisons by holding in those emotions, whether it’s guilt or shame or regret or sorrow.

And that definitely has played out in my story along the way just with failures and mistakes and poor choices that I made that had consequences and that I had to try and find my way back from. And a lot of it even turned into some depression along the way that I had to find my way back from as well and work through. So that hopefully isn’t too broad of an answer. Hopefully some of that answers your question. I apologize, I kind of rambled there.

Kim: No, I love that so much, and thank you for sharing that. I had a similar experience. I think especially as younger, highly sensitive people, we’re constantly trying to figure out the world around us and how people interact with us, and we get so much information about who we are, and I think we can be kinder to others than ourselves sometimes.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. I think to your point, when we’re, especially going through school, elementary, middle school, high school…

Kim: Oh, awful.

Josh: And not understanding that we have this genetic trait, we feel different. And so often in those environments, if you appear different, then you get a label. And whether that’s you’re broken, you’re weird, you are defective. And it may not be stated in just that way, but we can pick up on that vibe. But especially if we’re excluded is there’s something wrong with me. There’s something weird or broken.

And so, I think that we can walk around later on in life, and we still carry those labels or those feelings with us. And so, a huge part of our journey as highly sensitive people hopefully will be learning about the trait, learning about the benefits and the strengths that come with the trait, and then reinterpreting in a very compassionate and loving way, those difficult moments and realizing, okay, yes, I did cry more than the other kids. Yes, I was more sensitive, I was more gentle. I didn’t roughhouse as much, but none of those were bad things. And actually they were ways that I was staying true to myself, staying true to the way that I was wired.

And although at the time maybe they caused me to appear different, it’s actually a wonderful difference. It’s actually something that’s beautiful and special about me that I can embrace now. And I can look back at the child that I was, and I can have compassion for him, and I can love every aspect of him, even the ones that were rejected at the time because I see how special that was. And I see how even in the face of possibly bullying or ostracization being ostracized, I still stayed true to myself, and I was still compassionate and kind to others. And I still let my empathy show in how I interacted with the world and in seeing the best in others, even those sometimes who were mistreating me.

And so, I think it’s a way that we can look back at the past and maybe find some healing for some of those memories that were painful, but now we see, okay, that wasn’t a bad thing actually, that was just me being true to myself. And it actually is kind of beautiful to reinterpret it that way.

Kim: Oh my gosh, beautiful is one word. Yeah, you just brought up so many memories for me when I was a kid and just thinking about yourself in that way and that self-acceptance later on in life, I feel like our journeys just help us not only accept ourselves, but others in that way.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely.

Kim: How do you use that in your work? What are you doing with your coaching? What’s the kind of work that you’re doing?

Josh: So, a lot of it is, I mean, my company is called The Success Cycle, and that’s a model that I developed that basically takes you from your initial vision of the goal that you want to accomplish, all the way to achieving the goal, and on the other side also inspiring others. But in the middle of that process, there’s an emphasis and it’s step six in the success cycle on transformation. Excuse me. To me, that’s the heart of the work that I love to do is helping people cast that vision for the life that they desire. I guess one way we can divide it up, let me get rid of this kitty real quick.

Kim: Not now!

Josh: Sorry to all the listeners. I had a cat hop in my lap for a little bit there. If we look at it in terms of, the way I like to divide it up is a process of destination is where do you want to go? Transformation, who do you need to be? And then action. What do you need to do? And so often with different goal-achievement models, we get maybe one part of that, but not the others. And so, you might, especially a more extroverted coach, is going to tell you, okay, here’s what you need to do, go do it. And for those of us that are introverted and intuitive and highly sensitive, we need to see how the pieces are going to connect, but we also need to have clarity on where we’re going, and we need to believe that we’re worthy of that.

So, a lot of the work that I like to do with people is to look at their sense of self-worth and if they have a wounded sense of self-worth, how do we find healing there? Because if you think about it, let’s say you show up to a party that you weren’t invited to or a club that you’re not on the list at, and you go to go into the club, how likely are you to just walk in through the door and feel like you belong there? Chances are you’re not going to. Whereas if you go to a party that you’re invited to or you’re on the list at this club, you go up and you tell ‘em your name and you go right in. So, our self-worth works in a similar way. If we don’t believe that we belong somewhere, we’re not naturally going to go to that place.

And so, as children, let’s say our sense of self-worth was wounded, whether that’s by criticism or cruelty or judgment, maybe trauma or abuse or even those would be external enemies of self-worth can even internal enemies like failure and mistakes and poor choices, there may be a part of us that no matter what goal we set, we don’t really believe that we belong there. And that can be in our relationships, it can be in our career, it can be in terms of starting our own business or in our finances. We have this self-worth set point that tells us this is as good as you deserve. And a lot of times that’s subconscious, but it keeps us from going after our goals because we don’t really believe we belong there. Or on the other hand, we may achieve it. And that’s where imposter syndrome kicks in because a part of us feels like an imposter because we don’t belong, we’re not worthy of that.

Or you think about the celebrities, musicians who take their own lives, and what you find is that they reached the pinnacle, and part of them, from my perspective, didn’t believe they belonged there, and they turned to self-destructive behaviors that either ruin their career or potentially lead them to take their own lives. And so, to me, self-worth is an intricate part of goal achievement. And so, I try and work on both with my clients, give them a model and framework they can follow, but also go through that journey of transformation with them, especially in that area of self-worth. I know it’s a lot, so…

Kim: No, that’s amazing. It’s like, yeah, coaches can be like, here, take action. But the whole point of coaching is an internal, it’s an internal game. It’s an internal shift. And without that clarity of self, without that belief in yourself, we don’t always realize how much of a wall that can put between us and our success.

Josh: Yeah, I mean so much of it is subconscious, and so much of it is we don’t even realize how we’re holding ourselves back or why. But when we start to take time to take care of ourselves, or the way I often refer to it is when we rewrite our self-worth stories and we begin to believe that we’re worthy and deserving of every good thing that we desire in life, it changes so much. And what’s fascinating to me is how often we can look at, let’s say those who have children can look at their children, we can look at our best friend and we would never tell them, you’re not worthy of your goal. You shouldn’t go after it. You’ve messed up too much.

And yet, we can often look in the mirror and a part of ourselves feels like we’re not worthy, we don’t deserve it, we shouldn’t go after it. Who are we to think we deserve that? Or we could ever be worthy of that? And so, there’s a lot to unpack there, but I’d encourage people to think about the number of times that they give permission or that they encourage other people to go for big goals and dreams and how often they’ve held themselves back because a part of them doesn’t feel like they’re worthy of that, or they deserve that.

Kim: And I think when we’re in it, we don’t realize we’re doing that to ourselves, but it’s those internal stories that I can’t because I can’t because. And it’s almost like we don’t allow ourselves to feel like we can fit into that box until we achieve it, but it really works the other way around.

Josh: Yeah. Well, Dr. Robert Anthony wrote a book called Beyond Positive Thinking. And one of my favorite quotes from that book, he talks about if we have any creative desire, we also have within us the means of achievement. And that’s something that when I read that, it just resonated so deeply. And again, it was something I believed was true for so many other people but believing that for myself was a journey in itself, coming to fully believe that and embody that. If we have a creative desire, whether that’s a big goal or a dream, a next step that we want to take in a relationship or a career. But if we can cast that kind of a vision for our lives, then the reality is we have within us the means of achieving that goal, of bringing that dream to life. And again, it’s easy to believe for others. The challenge is learning to believe that for ourselves and then to go through the process of going after that goal in that dream.

Kim: Yes. So, speaking of difficulties or challenges that hold us back, what do you sometimes struggle with when it comes to your high sensitivity?

Josh: I think like most people, when it comes to high sensitivity, one of my biggest struggles is overstimulation. But I think we also have so many tools in personal development that we can use to nullify or overcome that struggle. And so, I often think about it and explain it, especially as those of us that are introverted, which is the majority of highly sensitive people are, but we have an energetic battery. And so, if we never take time for rest and restoration, we never take time to recharge that battery. We’re going to be limited in what we can accomplish. Whereas if we learn our natural rhythms and we learn how we best recharge, whether that’s time in nature, taking a nap, stepping away from people for a while to recharge and then coming back, we can basically do anything that we want to accomplish. And so, where I have struggled in the past was one, not realizing I had the trait, and then two, once I realized that I had the trait learning how I best recharge.

And so, what I found was years ago, I would go to a party, let’s say at a friend’s house, a kid’s birthday party, something like that. And I would find myself partway through the party going into one of the back bedrooms, their cat would often hide back there. So, I’d just hang out with the cat, pet the cat for a while, recharge, and I could come back.

And so, I’ve realized that that was me naturally leaning towards that, naturally looking for ways to get away for a while, recharge and then come back. But we can also do that in terms of just naturally building a rhythm, okay, I’m going to go to this party for a while, but at a certain point I know I’ll need to leave to go recharge, or I need to get some extra rest before I go into this situation.

So even conversations like this, I love them, but I know on the other side I’ll need to come down a little bit. I’ll need to take care of myself. And that’s a whole different branch we could go down, but that idea of taking time to take care of ourselves is so important. So, for me, the biggest struggle was that energetic battery and pushing myself too hard and wondering why I couldn’t go with certain coworkers and things like that. They just would go, go, go. And they loved it. And I’d run out of steam along the way, and it’s like, what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I keep up with them?

But the reality is we’re not designed necessarily to keep up with those who aren’t highly sensitive in the same way. And the best thing we can do instead is learn our natural rhythms, learn how to take time to take care of ourselves, make time for that rest and restoration so we can recharge, and then we can go right back at it and use our great, brilliant creative minds to solve problems in different ways and to find unique solutions and embrace all the gifts that come.

But that’s, I would say probably learning that and learning to really tune into myself in that way was one of the biggest challenges for sure.

Kim: Oh my gosh, everything you just mentioned I could totally relate to you made me think about when I go on vacation, I have a really big and fun family who loves to go, go, go. And every once in a while, just kind of half-hearted jokingly, I’d be like, I’ll be in my room. I need to go introvert. Or before I would actually feel bad. I would feel like they would think I wouldn’t want to hang out with them. And it’s like, no, I need to. If you want me to be kind and loving on this trip and not a monster, I need a minute.

Josh: Yeah. Well, and something that was a real discovery for me and that was really impactful was looking at the way that so many of us are raised to view things on a dichotomy. So on one end of the spectrum, you have selfishness, and if you take time for yourself, you’re selfish is what many of us are raised to believe. Now, the other hand of the spectrum, you have selflessness, which is praised, and if you show up selflessly for everyone else and you put your own needs aside, that’s the highest ideal.

And the reality is that in the middle of that spectrum is a place called healthy self-interest. And the more time that we spend in healthy self-interest, the more that we’re able to give to others, the more that we show up as our best selves and the more energy and the more we can give to others. And so what I’ve found is that whereas initially it feels like taking time and not thinking of others only feels selfish, we can find our way back to the middle of that spectrum. And what we find when we spend time there is that we actually show up better for the people that we love. We actually show up better at work. We can actually multiply our impact by taking time to take care of ourselves. It’s a paradigm shift for many of us that takes some time and it takes some practice, but self-care activities and things like that are not selfish. And rather what we find is that they enable us to show up so much better with so much more energy and passion and joy for others.

So, like you said on vacation, if we can program in that time, even if we just step away ourselves, let everyone else go do what they need to do and say, Hey, when you guys get back, I’ll meet you at dinner. And what they’ll find is that the person who shows up at dinner is energized, again, is excited as joyful. We show up as our best selves because we’ve taken that time to take care of ourselves. So, it will feel unnatural at first to many of us because of how we’ve been raised. But the reality is that there’s so much value to be found in taking that time to take care of ourselves so that we can recharge, and so that we can show up at our best and give our best. It really does make a world of difference.

Kim: World of difference. So, with you there it is a practice and one that is just, it’s good once you sink into it. It’s kind of fun actually, probably going to the other end of that where I’m doing too much of it. So, what do you love about your sensitivity? What do you love about this trait?

Josh: It’s ironic. Maybe an oversimplification, but everything. So, I love the depth of processing. If we just go through the DOES acronym, I love the ability of my brain to explore new possibilities, to cast a vision for my life, to help other people cast a vision for their lives. That idea of looking at possibilities, looking at even puzzles and trying to solve them and having a brain that will go through and make all these connections to the past and help me solve that problem. And some of that I know just comes from being intuitive as well, but we have this unique ability to find unique solutions. And I think that that makes us a huge asset on so many different teams that we would be involved in helping friends who are struggling, those of us that are coaches and helping our clients find solutions to their struggles.

So that’s huge. And I think another thing that I love is the emotional responsivity or empathy that we have, that enhanced sense of empathy that’s built into us with this trait because we don’t write people off. We’re not good at buying into those dichotomies like I talked about earlier. We don’t buy into the us-versus-them mentalities. We look at people and all we see is amazing potential. We look at people and we wonder what is their story? And so I think that that capacity for empathy, even though it manifests in some odd way sometimes, like watching a movie or a TV show and weeping uncontrollably because a character dies, but the reality is to engage with other human beings on that level to create a safe space for others so that they can show up as their authentic selves and feel safe doing so when maybe they can’t do that anywhere else is an enormous gift.

And then looking at the sensitivity to subtleties ties back to a lot of what I said at the beginning, which is this idea of we notice things that other people don’t notice. And tying that back to empathy, we can see things when someone’s having an off day and we can lean in and create that safe space for them to say, this is what I’m struggling with, this is where I’m hurting. So especially in a corporate setting, how many people actually do that? How many people actually take the time to do that? It’s so often this eat dog world, and yet we’re able to look at that person, see value in them, and lean in and create that safe space so they can share what maybe they’ve not been able to share with anyone else in their life. And we can help them brainstorm for solutions and walk along that path and support them. And so in every way, it makes a world of difference because like I said, the only downside to the trade in my mind is the overstimulation. And we can learn to control that. And once we do, it’s only to use the cliche, it’s only a superpower at that point, but it really is, it can become a gift if we use it right, and if we lean into those benefits that come with being wired in the way that we are as highly sensitive people.

Kim: Right. I have a question for you. Do you ever struggle with empathy? Sometimes, because I’ve been finding, especially after life and experience that I am with you, I love empathy is one of my favorite traits because I feel like you said it’s so needed and I don’t feel like I see it a lot, but my struggle sometimes, especially in close relationships is getting it back. I need that back now. I was giving, giving, giving and holding space, holding space, holding space, but I feel like I have trouble finding people who can do that for me sometimes.

Josh: No, that’s a great point. And I have a friend who’s a caseworker for a local mental health organization, and she struggles with the same thing as an introvert, as an empath, as a highly sensitive person, I think that we have to, at a certain point, maybe come up with parameters for how we express our empathy, and maybe not everyone gets all of the empathy all the time. And so, what I’ve found is, one, when we’re going to help someone else, are we more invested in solving the problem than they are? If so, then we need to take a step back. Is it a reciprocal relationship or is it very one-sided? Are they pulling a lot of energy but not giving it back? Do we need to set some boundaries there? There’s a model I came across, and I don’t know the source of it, but it’s been super helpful for me called the five levels of relationships.

So, it goes from one end of the spectrum is avoidance, then you have superficial, impersonal, personal, and intimate. And if you look at your relationships, generally, they’re going to fall into one of those categories. So obviously your intimate category, you’re going to have a handful of people at most in that. A lot of people will fall into the personal category, some in the impersonal, some in the superficial, and many potentially in the avoidance. And so, if we look at those relationships in our lives where we want to share our empathetic energy with other people, sometimes what we can do is look at, okay, what category of relationship would I qualify this person in? Is it an intimate relationship? Is this somebody that I want to have the best of me always?

Or is this someone that I’ve actually been trying to avoid that wants empathy from me, but it’s not healthy to give it to them because they’re narcissistic or they’re an energy vampire, or I know it’s not going to come back to me. And so, if we look through that filter of those levels of relationships, it can help guide us in terms of where we give our energy and where we give our time so that we’re not giving time and energy to people who don’t care and aren’t going to return it. And instead, we’re investing it into the people closest to us and making sure that they get our best. And then what’s left, we can distribute to the other people in those other categories, if that makes sense.

Kim: Is that a book?

Josh: Honestly, it’s just a diagram that I came across that it didn’t even have the source listed. I wish I could find it. I wish I could credit someone with that, but it was just something I came across a diagram that had the five levels of relationships.

Kim: You look that up. That sounds like something I need to pay attention to because

Josh: Yeah, if you find where it came from, then let me know. I love it and I want to credit someone with it, but I share it as often as I can anyway, because Brilliant.

Kim: Well, it makes a ton of sense because we can give so selflessly, and like you said, it’s all about energy and boundaries and making sure that we’re getting our needs filled too. So, what is your advice for HSPs who may be struggling finding joy and happiness and purpose in their lives?

Josh: There’s so many different ways to go with that question. So, I guess for me, the HSP journey, as I understand it, there’s three steps to it. There’s awareness, there’s understanding, and then there’s what I call awakening. If you look at the awareness part, that’s just becoming aware that we even have the trait. And so, once we become aware of it, in my mind, the time before awareness and then the time after. But once we begin to do research and understand the benefits of the trait and we grow in our understanding of ourselves and how we’re wired and that DOES acronym, then on the other side of that, we can start to embrace the gifts that come with our sensitivity. And we go into what I call the awakening period, which is where we actually integrate those into our lives and our relationships. And so, for many highly sensitive people, especially those that don’t know they’re sensitive or are just finding that out there is that struggle initially to figure out, okay, is this something that’s wrong with me or is this something that’s good for me?

And then they go into that understanding category and realize, okay, I’m wired differently, but there are benefits to this and I can learn to control that overstimulation. And then from there, we can go into that awakening, which is like, okay, if I have this enhanced capacity for empathy, how can I use that to help others? And what I believe people find is that when they come home to themselves as a highly sensitive person and they learn to embrace the gifts, there’s so much that comes out of that, so much joy, so much beauty, so much wisdom, a sense of courage maybe that has been lacking and a sense of both self-love and an enhanced love for others, because we can now see the whole world through this different lens, and we see ourselves through this lens. So, to me, the struggles that come so often come because we’re looking at our limitations. We’re looking at where we feel broken or wrong or defective, but when we learn that that’s not true, when we learn that we are wonderfully different and we can embrace that label and that thought, it opens us up to a whole new world. And so, things that we once saw as character deficits or we used to see as weaknesses, we realize now, okay, that’s connected to my empathy. That’s actually a strength.

It’s brilliant, and it’s amazing what that turns into. And just to give an example, I used to wonder why random people would come up to me and just tell me all of their life stories. And maybe you’ve had that experience too, waitress at a restaurant, someone on a walking trail would come up and just pour their heart out to me. And I thought, this is really strange. But what I’ve realized is that as an HSP and as an empath, I naturally hold space and create safe spaces for people. And what I was doing was somehow energetically communicating this is a safe space for you. And then listening intently and empathizing so deeply that they would on the other side say, thank you so much for everything you said. And I’d be like, I didn’t say much. I just listened. But they just needed someone to listen, someone to care.

And we can take that. And when we understand how that capacity for empathy works, we can share that everywhere we go, we can create that safe space for people to show up as their boldest and most authentic selves. And so often what that leads to is them going on their own journey, coming home to themselves and showing up with more joy and more courage in the world. So it’s this positive ripple effect that just comes out of embracing our gifts and living those out. But until we’ve gone through that process, it can be a struggle. And I totally get that and don’t want to diminish that in any way.

Kim: Wow, I love that so much. It’s like how do you turn that knowledge of being sensitive into a positive? And once you do, you don’t even realize the seeds you’re planting and the impact you have just by I am the same. I feel like people tell me all the time, I feel so comfortable telling you anything. We are nonjudgmental and we understand, and we just have this energy about us that people feel comfortable opening to us. And what a gift. What a gift.

Josh: Absolutely.

Kim: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today. How can people follow along on your journey and see what you’re up to?

Josh: So probably one of the best places to start would be on LinkedIn. I’m on there quite a bit and try and post on there a few times a week in the featured section of my profile. On there, there are some resources. One of them would be the success cycle. So anyone who loves goal achievement and wants to see that framework can find that there. There’s an ebook or a video training. There also is a book that I wrote called Awareness Understanding Awakening, A Handbook for Highly Sensitive People. And that basically is everything I wish someone had told me initially when I found out I was a highly sensitive person compiled into one book. And so, it’s not long, it’s maybe 60 pages or so, but there’s hopefully just a lot of information that people would find beneficial if they’re new on this journey, if they’re still in that struggling stage of what have I gotten myself into now that I know that I have this trait? What does it mean? That might be helpful for them?

And then there’s also a resource called How to Rewrite Your Self-Worth Story. So, anyone who resonated with that part of our conversation might find some help there. And a lot of what I present is this idea of having a self-worth account that because of criticism and cruelty and judgment and those things that we talked about may have been depleted over time. There are some ideas in there, how do you begin to rewrite your story and make deposits in your self-worth account? But yeah, I just recommend going to LinkedIn, going to my featured section and diving into any of those resources that are helpful and reach out because I’d love to have conversations with whoever is resonating with this conversation. I’d love to help in any way that I can and encourage you in any way that I can. And if that evolves into a coaching relationship, that’s great, but I’m not here to sell anyone anything. I just want to make sure wherever you’re at on your journey, that you know that if you’re listening to this, that the truth about you is beautiful, that you’re worthy and deserving of every good thing that you desire in life, and that absolutely anyone can lead a life of intentional influence and impact. And so, any way that I can assist you in any of those areas, that’s what I’m here to do and how I’m here to serve.

Kim: Amazing. Josh, thank you so much for the work that you do and for that.

Josh: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Kim: All right. Thank you so much.

Josh: Yeah, thanks again for having me. It’s been great talking with you.

Thank you so, much for listening in on my conversation with Josh. I hope it reminded you that your sensitivity is a true source of wisdom, empathy, and deep connection.

If today’s episode resonated with you, I’d love for you to share it with another highly sensitive soul who might need a gentle reminder of their worth. And if you’d like more resources and guidance on thriving in a gentler and more nurturing career, that’s the work I do. You can head to happyhspcoaching.com and download your free career clarity guidebook and stress less toolkit or sign up for a free coaching session to plan your next steps.

Until next time, take care.

About Josh Speraneo:

Josh is a psychology major, personal development junkie, and identity shift coach who helps quiet, compassionate people go from hiding in plain sight (due to self-doubt, fear, or overthinking) to showing up as the boldest, most authentic versions of themselves and sharing their gifts with the world! 

His gentle, but powerful coaching style resonates deeply with people who identity as introverts, empaths, and highly sensitive people (or, as Josh prefers to call them: highly sensitive badasses!)

Plus, his emphasis on the area of healthy self-worth gives his clients a unique experience they won’t find with any other coaches or teachers. 

This emphasis, when combined with proprietary frameworks like The Success Cycle, lends itself to powerful transformations and identity shifts in a short period of time (for those who aren't afraid to go deep and get crystal-clear on the lives they truly desire).

Follow along with Josh’s journey:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-speraneo-thesuccesscycle

Let’s Connect:

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📩 Want to be a guest on the show? Reach out to Kimberly at: kmarshall@happyhspcoaching.com

📖 Learn about Kimberly’s work or grab your free Career Clarity Guidebook: happyhspcoaching.com

About Kimberly:

Kimberly Marshall is a career coach for highly sensitive people (HSPs) and host of The Happy HSP Podcast. After 20 years in the publishing industry working for companies like Time Inc., Monster.com, and W. W. Norton, she left her corporate career to pursue work that better suited her HSP needs. She now helps HSPs overcome burnout and low confidence in the workplace and create gentle and nurturing careers that bring them lots of purpose, meaning, and joy. 

Through her work and creative ventures, Kimberly hopes to shed more light on the reality of living with high sensitivity and inspire more HSPs to embrace their empathetic, loving, and gentle natures.

• Hosted/produced by Kimberly Marshall

• Edited by Fonzie Try Media

• Artwork by Tara Corola