Episode #5: The HSP’s Search for Clarity in Love and Life
From self-discovery to helping HSPs navigate relationship uncertainty, Ella Ozer shares her journey of emotional depth, intuition, and creative purpose.
Welcome back to The Happy HSP Podcast. I’m your host, Kimberly Marshall, and today we’re diving into the difficulties of decision-making as a highly sensitive person, especially as it relates to major life decisions and love.
My guest today is Ella Ozer, a relationship clarity therapist who helps HSPs answer that all-too-common and terrifying question, “Should I stay, or should I go?”
We explore the challenges that many HSPs face in overthinking and rumination, but we also discuss how to recognize and follow your intuition so you can make choices that better align with your true self. So, if you’ve ever felt stuck trying to figure it all out in love or life, this one’s for you.
I hope you enjoy it!
Kim: Alright, Ella, welcome to the Happy HSP podcast. I’m so happy to have you.
Ella: Thanks for having me. I’m happy to be here.
Kim: So, the first thing I usually like to ask my guests is how they found out they were highly sensitive. So, what was that journey like for you or how did you find out that you were highly sensitive?
Ella: I love this question because it changed so many things for me when I found out I was highly sensitive and so I found out I was highly sensitive two years ago now, I think I was 27. And so even to think I made it 27 years without knowing this about myself is mind boggling because it’s helped me a lot since.
But it happened when I was working with a nine-year-old client of mine. Everything clicked for me. I was staffing that case with my supervisor, and he handed me a copy of The Highly Sensitive Child. And as I started flipping through the book, there’s, for anyone who has a copy of that book or has flipped through it, right at the beginning, there’s a questionnaire of how to know your child is highly sensitive.
And I was kind of reading it to myself and I was like, wow, this sounds a lot like me when I was a kid. This is me. Someone wrote this guide about me. And so that’s kind of when I realized, okay, this relates to me. And then I started digging into more about high sensitivity and learning more about it and my eyes were opened.
Kim: So, what changed for you once you realized that the list of questions or descriptions fit you? Was it helpful for you?
Ella: I think primarily it was so validating, first and foremost of just feeling everything made sense in a way of why I can’t handle being in loud social situations for long periods of time or why my clothes always bother me and I have to have very specific types of clothes. And so just those little things kind of fell into place if I had verbiage and reasoning behind why I experienced certain things.
And over time, being able to connect with other people and realizing like, oh, I’m not the only one like this, there’s other people that are experiencing this is super, it forms the sense of community to it as well.
And now when I have new clients coming in, I can immediately spot if they’re highly sensitive and I bring it up with them, we kind of talk about it and it’s so I can see the shift in people too when they realize, oh wow, I’m highly sensitive. And just that same type of relief almost that washes over, okay, there’s a reason behind this. There’s nothing wrong with me. This is just why I’m experiencing things in this way.
Kim: So, you found out when you were a therapist, correct?
Ella: Yes.
Kim: With children?
Ella: Yes. So, I found out because of a kid’s client of mine.
Kim: And then what made you make that shift into relationships?
Ella: Yeah, that’s a really good question. So, once I kind of dove a little bit into the world of highly sensitive people, I was like, okay, there’s something here. And I started recognizing, wow, I really hit it off with highly sensitive people. And I feel like the clients I do my best work with are highly sensitive. Just from that emotional level, I feel like I can really meet them at that place and process with them. And it’s kind of a different experience working with highly emotional people.
And so that kind of started me shifting my gears to working with highly sensitive people. And something that I noticed that a lot of highly sensitive people experience is the desire to make the right decisions and specifically for big decisions making the most out of a certain path that they’re going down. And so that was really interesting to me.
And I started working with highly sensitive people and using my therapeutic expertise of how to make hard decisions and really big decisions and the emotional experiences people have doing that. And ultimately that kind of led me into making relationship decisions of staying or leaving your relationship because I mean they’re some of the biggest decisions that we make. And so that felt really important and it feels very significant and impactful for people. And so, it’s something I’m really passionate about.
Kim: You mentioned that with highly sensitive people, we tend to want to make the best choice possible, especially when it’s a big life choice. Why do you think that is?
Ella: So, I think everyone, whether you’re highly sensitive or not, naturally, you want to make the best choice for yourself. And I think just with highly sensitive people’s heightened senses, heightened emotions that amplifies and another quality of highly sensitive people is thinking through all of the scenarios, all of the options, having tabs on everything going on. And I think that really adds to sometimes the pressure of this awareness of you could go down a path that maybe you wouldn’t want to or just when it gets to that extreme point of needing to think of every single scenario, I think it’s about reeling it back in from that anxious state to kind of more of a present moment state.
And that’s when I found that highly sensitive people are in tune with themselves the most is when they’re able to reel that in and be present and really listen to what sits well for them in the present moment without that natural pull to go down that rabbit hole.
Kim: And when you say rabbit hole, I’m thinking, is that rumination? I know I struggle with that. Thinking through, like you mentioned from every single angle, what could possibly go wrong? What could possibly, usually it’s what goes wrong, right? We’re not really thinking…
Ella: All the great scenarios that could happen. Yeah, it’s rumination. It can be symptoms of high anxiety also of just playing out all these different scenarios. It could be catastrophizing of thinking the worst possible scenarios that could happen. So yeah, it’s all of that and it’s a trait that can be used as a strength, but also when it overcorrects, when it’s to the extreme, we can find it being problematic.
Kim: So, what do you usually say to someone who struggles with that, because especially with relationships, I feel like that’s tough because that affects all parts of our life. It is our life who you choose to spend your life with affects your daily life, your happiness, your unhappiness. So, for someone who is going through that, maybe what is one small idea of how we can move past?
Ella: I think it starts from really building a connection with yourself in a state of calm, of relaxation, not when you’re dysregulated, but rather knowing how to regulate. Because when you’re regulated, you’re most in tune with your intuition, with your wise mind. And so that’s the place that you want to be able to make decisions from. That’s the place where you’re going to make wise decisions from.
And so, recognizing when you’re dysregulated and finding ways that work for you to get back in touch with your body, your intuition. Highly sensitive people, another phrase I like using is highly intuitive people because we have such a strong intuition and learning how to connect with that is the biggest superpower in my opinion, and that’s where you can really learn to trust these decisions small and large.
Kim: Yeah, I don’t know about you. It’s sometimes I feel like I have that intuition, but I stop myself from making the choice because I don’t know if it’s the right choice, which is probably what you were mentioning before, but it’s like, I think I know what I want, but what if…
Ella: Absolutely. I can relate to that so much. And I think a lot of people can of wait, is this my intuition or am I just, what if it’s not, what if it’s something else.
Kim: Or what other people say I should do, that’s a big one for me. I learned a long time ago that when I listened to what other people think I should do, it always leads me astray and I’m like, gosh, I knew what I wanted to do. But everyone, I think it comes from a good place. Everyone wants you to do well or see you do well, and you want to do well, and you think people know, but at the end of the day, it’s really about, like you said, that relationship with yourself and knowing what’s best for you.
Ella: And I think that’s a really great point of, and I think part of HSPs wanting to know and be in touch with all these different scenarios is, okay, let’s collect as much information as possible. What is everyone else thinking about this? What opinions do other people have? Because we’re so open to other people’s perspectives and opinions, and we want all of the information, it can put us in this place of analysis paralysis and just disconnect us from actually what we’re feeling on the inside.
And advice I have for that is to, before you start seeking out people’s opinions, because that’s okay to do. We don’t also want to live in this vacuum. If you have wise friends and family and community, it’s okay to go to them and lean on them. But I think what’s important is to first be honest with yourself at your core of what you’re feeling, what you’re thinking, and use other people’s opinions to as a mirror, like a bouncing reflector based off of how you’re feeling, not taking other people’s opinions as facts or as a way to meet to pursue.
Kim: That ultimate truth. It’s almost like figure out what you want, get everyone else’s opinion and take or leave what is said because in your heart what is truly right for you. Or you hope!
Ella: Yeah, exactly. It’s hard to explain when you are iffy about it and you’re not sure, and it feels fuzzy. That happens sometimes. But then there’s also those moments that feel super clear and okay, yeah, that actually is really right. And I think it’s about also leaning into those moments and channeling yourself when you have those types of feelings.
Kim: Do you see a lot with maybe your clients or even in your experience when you’re making a big transition such as in a relationship, and before things get better, they kind of fall apart in ways because you’re changing a lot maybe about yourself. Maybe you’re gaining confidence and you’re figuring out, it almost feels sometimes for me during these big transitions that it gets harder before it gets easier. But once you get over that, it’s like this, oh my God, I’m so glad I did that.
Ella: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s absolutely true, and I see that a lot of, and I see, to backtrack one step further, it’s hesitation to start making these decisions because you can kind of tell this is going to be a mountain to climb. I’m going to be in the trenches for a while.
And it is really hard, and it can be really scary, and change is scary too. And also not something that HSPs love big changes. We’re not known to love those, which can make it even scarier. And so yeah, I think things absolutely fall apart and become really hard. But also, something that I’ve noticed is I think we’re oftentimes we expect it to get harder and harder and harder and harder.
For example, for relationships, I see people who maybe are really unsatisfied in the relationships and they deep down, I can tell want to leave and they know they want to leave, but they drag it out more and more and more until at the end they finally make the decision to leave because they’re dreading what that breakup would be like for them. And they realize that they actually already went through the hard part of grieving the relationship and coming to terms with the breakup so that then when they actually do it, it’s like the huge, hard part was already behind them.
Kim: That’s a great point. So, keep in mind that when you’re feeling these transitions and it’s so hard, you’re doing the hard work. That’s the hard work.
Ella: That is the hard work. And it can be a roller coaster still. There’s still going to be those sad days and those moments of doubts and grief is not linear. It’s a roller coaster. And so that’s definitely there, but it is paired with this sense of relief and freedom.
Kim: When you look back and you look at that timeline from finding you’re a highly sensitive person to now, what does that journey look like to you? What have you learned about yourself? How have you grown?
Ella: Yeah, well, I’ve learned so much. But something that really stands out to me is I never considered myself a creative person. And since diving into the world of highly sensitive people, I know that that’s a trait that many highly sensitive people have is creativity.
And I started kind of, I think in the back of my mind, noticing different elements of myself of, oh, you enjoyed that when you had that creative space or you really, and I think I’ve really learned to lean into, and I’m still more and more stepping into that creative space, but I think that’s a really big piece that I’ve really discovered over these last two years in myself is I get a lot of joy out of being creative, and that’s never something I associated about myself.
Kim: How are you exploring that? Is there a certain way that you’d like to share?
Ella: Yeah, I think a lot of it has been through business and through Instagram, being able to create different programs, different content, different ideas…it’s so fun to me.
Kim: So, what would you say is one of the hardest parts about being highly sensitive, maybe that you struggle with or you see your clients struggle with a lot? I’m curious on your take on maybe the not “negative” aspects, but the more challenging.
Ella: For me personally, something challenging when it comes to being a highly sensitive person is I want to experience everything. And I guess that kind of goes back to all these different options or paths we think about going down is there’s so much that life can offer, and that this world can offer, and I want to do all of it. And so that strays me sometimes, and I look into other people’s lanes and, oh, what could that be like? Instead of focusing and putting my head down and going down my own path.
And so that’s something that I’ve needed to watch out for is eyeing things and not needing them right away. Maybe telling myself, okay, maybe one day that’s something I can explore, but just because I saw that doesn’t mean I have to pack up all my stuff and move to New York because that sounded really cool. Right. That’s amazing.
Kim: Yeah, that shiny object syndrome.
Ella: Right? Yes, absolutely. Sometimes I look at something, I’m like, should I invest everything in this and go all in? And it’s like, no, that’s not always what you should do.
Kim: You have to dabble. Sometimes you don’t have to know everything about it, but that’s curiosity in and of itself, I guess.
Ella: Yeah.
Kim: So, what do you love about the trait and celebrate?
Ella: This one is a double-edged sword, but I really love how deeply I feel, and there’s definitely times when that’s difficult, but it’s important to remind yourself as hard as the hard times are to feel. It’s like we feel so much joy and excitement and happiness, and I love how full that is.
And I also feel like I’m never bored. I could sit without anything around me probably for hours and just reflect and think and dive into my inner world because there’s so much in there and I feel like that’s one of my favorite parts of being a highly sensitive person.
Kim: Love that so much. And it’s so weird for me to think that some people don’t have that.
Ella: Yeah, it boggles my mind.
Kim: I can’t imagine not having that. Just like I’m sure a lot of people can’t imagine what it’s like to be an HSP, but I’m with you. I could journal for hours, have a cup of tea, journal again, read a book. It’s like I could literally spend my entire day just thinking, that to me is luxury.
Ella: Yes, absolutely. That sounds like an incredible day. And there’s this study out there, I don’t remember exactly who was by, but it was something along the lines of most people would prefer to get electrically zapped than sit in a room alone with their thoughts.
Kim: Wow. Not us!
Ella: Not us. I can’t relate to that.
Kim: Cannot relate. Zero zero, really. So, what advice would you have for highly sensitive people who may be struggling to find happiness in their life?
Ella: Such a good question, and there are so many things that come to mind. I think starting with baby steps and finding little things to infuse your day with joy, no matter how small that may seem, because really those little moments are the building blocks to your day, to your week, to your month, to your year, and finding those small moments where you can be really present and intentional and fully absorb yourself into something that brings you joy.
It’s such a practice and a muscle to strengthen and to work on because it doesn’t come easy, especially in our world now where there is so much to think about and do all the time, and you can constantly be doing. And so, if you’re someone who struggles with being present or knowing how to do that, another way that I like thinking about it is absorbing yourself in something that makes you feel good. And so, absorbing yourself in cooking your dinner and really go going all in on whatever you’re chopping up or whatever the recipe is, or if you’re gardening, fully being absorbed in that. And then when you find your mind wandering, gently bringing yourself back to that moment.
Kim: It’s so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that with me, and thank you for sharing this time. I really appreciate it.
Ella: Yeah, thank you. It was so nice. Thanks for having me.
Kim: Before I let you go, how can people get in touch with you, follow along on your journey, and is there anything else you want to share with maybe some projects coming up? I’d love to hear about that.
Ella: Yeah, so the best place to find me is on Instagram @clarityinlove, and that’s where I show up every day. You can find me on there, and next week actually, I’m releasing a program, the Relationship Clarity Kit. So, if you’re someone who’s unsatisfied in your relationship or you don’t know if you should stay or leave, or you really want to dig into those subconscious elements and your relationship patterns that are showing up for you, I highly recommend this program. It’s very comprehensive in terms of getting you from the point of staying up at night wondering what all these options are, if you should stay, if you're leave, what the right choice is to bringing you more clarity in that decision. So that drops next week, and you can find that through my Instagram as well.
Kim: Amazing. Thank you so much for all that and for the work you do. It’s so important.
Ella: Thank you so much, Kim. This was so nice.
Thank you so much for listening to this beautiful conversation with Ella. Her journey is such a great reminder that being a highly sensitive person in love can be challenging, but these experiences can also open the path to clarity and a deeper connection with yourself and your intuition.
Please share this episode with your HSP friends and loved ones who could use some encouragement in love life or leave a review to help others find the podcast.
And if you’re navigating a big decision in your own life, especially as it relates to your career or life’s purpose, that’s the work I do. Go to www.happyhspcoaching.com for more information and to book a free career clarity breakthrough session with me. It’s a great way to gain a better understanding of which steps you can take today to make your career goals a reality.
Until next time. Take care!
About Dr. Kaaryn Cater:
Dr. Kaaryn Cater is a Learning Advisor at a tertiary learning institution in New Zealand. Her research interests include sensitivity, environmental impacts on learning, neurodiversity, inclusion, equity, empowering learners through intrinsic motivation, self-efficacy and metacognitive monitoring, and promoting education sector change through sensitivity education.
Follow along with Ella’s journey:
Instagram: @clarityinlove
Let’s Connect:
🤍 Loved this episode? Share your biggest takeaway or follow us on Instagram @happyhsppodcast — we’d love to hear from you!
🎧 Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review to help more HSPs find this space: thehappyhsppodcast.buzzsprout.com
📩 Want to be a guest on the show? Reach out to Kimberly at: kmarshall@happyhspcoaching.com
📖 Learn about Kimberly’s work or grab your free Career Clarity Guidebook: happyhspcoaching.com
About Kimberly:
After 20 years in the publishing industry working for companies like Time Inc., Monster.com, and W. W. Norton, Kimberly Marshall left her corporate work to create a gentler and more nurturing career that better suited her as an HSP. After repeatedly struggling with burnout and low confidence in the workplace, she now helps HSPs create careers that bring them lots of purpose, meaning, and joy. With the Happy HSP Podcast, Kimberly hopes to shed more light on the reality of living with high sensitivity and inspire more HSPs to embrace their empathetic, generous, and loving natures.
Hosted/produced by Kimberly Marshall
Edited by Fonzie Try Media
Artwork by Tara Corola